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Unread 12-18-2008, 05:46 PM
SOE-Rothgar SOE-Rothgar is offline
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Originally Posted by dragowulf View Post
That definitely sounds like a good idea. If you try for a community based project like you were talking about, it would open up a whole new spectrum of things we can do. There are so many different minds that could contribute. You, the modders/players, perfectionists, me . We could make the UI much better by doing this.

I would be up for it.
I agree, it sounds like a lot of fun and a chance for us to do some really cool things together. The biggest hurdle will be soliciting feedback from people but not end up with the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome. You also don't want to make the project take 10x as long to complete by putting every issue up to a vote.

In order for it to work well, I think there needs to be a small group of people that actually do the work and make the final decisions, but involve the entire community via screenshots and forum posts throughout the process. This way if the community has an idea or sees something they don't like, we can talk about resolutions during development.

I can provide code support for special needs on my own time so it doesn't interfere with my normal workload.

The biggest thing I ask from the project is that everything we do from top to bottom is professional looking and doesn't cut any corners in quality. There are a lot of niche custom interfaces out there that look cool and will be popular to a part of the player base. But I'd really like to do something that's traditional looking that will have a wide appeal to the most people.

If we're successful in making something that's leaps and bounds beyond the Default UI, I would push for making it the new Default or at the very minimum having it shipped with the client and marketed in a way that players will know how to try it out.

I really love the idea of doing something of this caliber with the talent that you guys have. It certainly would not be meant as a replacement for the UI's that you guys are already working on. A good example of functionality is the click-to-cure feature that has become a part of several UI's. I think this is a really awesome idea and a great testiment to your ingenuity, but I'm not sure if its something you'd want to include to the mass player-base. I guess the first step is to determine what the goal of the project is. Are we creating a replacement for the Default UI that should be easy to learn for new players? If so, advanced features like those should probably be left out. However, if we think that what the game needs is a Default-style interface, but one that caters to the more advanced players, then maybe those are the type of features we should include.

There are lots of things to talk about obviously. I guess the first step is find out who is interested in doing this and put together a team. Then we can hammer out the details over chat. =)
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Unread 12-18-2008, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
I agree, it sounds like a lot of fun and a chance for us to do some really cool things together. The biggest hurdle will be soliciting feedback from people but not end up with the "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome. You also don't want to make the project take 10x as long to complete by putting every issue up to a vote.

In order for it to work well, I think there needs to be a small group of people that actually do the work and make the final decisions, but involve the entire community via screenshots and forum posts throughout the process. This way if the community has an idea or sees something they don't like, we can talk about resolutions during development.
So involve the whole community, but only a group will determine the final decision based on logic/reasoning. Sounds reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
The biggest thing I ask from the project is that everything we do from top to bottom is professional looking and doesn't cut any corners in quality. There are a lot of niche custom interfaces out there that look cool and will be popular to a part of the player base. But I'd really like to do something that's traditional looking that will have a wide appeal to the most people.
Aye quality is important. If it's done right the first time, you don't have to go back and edit it several times. For me when editing UIs, it has to be perfect on each side with the same amount of pixel deadspace otherwise it bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
I really love the idea of doing something of this caliber with the talent that you guys have. It certainly would not be meant as a replacement for the UI's that you guys are already working on. A good example of functionality is the click-to-cure feature that has become a part of several UI's. I think this is a really awesome idea and a great testiment to your ingenuity, but I'm not sure if its something you'd want to include to the mass player-base. I guess the first step is to determine what the goal of the project is. Are we creating a replacement for the Default UI that should be easy to learn for new players? If so, advanced features like those should probably be left out. However, if we think that what the game needs is a Default-style interface, but one that caters to the more advanced players, then maybe those are the type of features we should include.

There are lots of things to talk about obviously. I guess the first step is find out who is interested in doing this and put together a team. Then we can hammer out the details over chat. =)
I'm not exactly sure. What does everyone else think?
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Unread 12-18-2008, 11:18 PM
Landiin Landiin is offline
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I agree with Rothgar, that windows should not have elaborate scripting in them.
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Unread 12-18-2008, 11:40 PM
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Yeah. The elaborate scripting is for the us

Otherwise what are we here for?
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Unread 12-19-2008, 04:23 AM
Nitefang Nitefang is offline
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Though I am not a code wizard by any means, I would be very interested in being a part of this project, perhaps in a testing capacity or with the look/graphic elements involved.
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Unread 06-17-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragowulf View Post
So involve the whole community, but only a group will determine the final decision based on logic/reasoning. Sounds reasonable.


Aye quality is important. If it's done right the first time, you don't have to go back and edit it several times. For me when editing UIs, it has to be perfect on each side with the same amount of pixel deadspace otherwise it bugs me.


I'm not exactly sure. What does everyone else think?
Well three of us in my household play . we discussed this and we would be
willing to test. My wife works I am disabled and always homeand my duagther plays when she can I am a tradeskiller to relax and raider for fun have many toons able to do alot. Ok we are Everquest Junkies
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Unread 07-08-2009, 05:46 AM
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They all look a little cluttered so far, imo, needs simplifying, also everything at the bottom has a blocking effect on the loverly graphics, there getting an upgrade I want to be able to see them
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Unread 07-08-2009, 04:28 PM
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I don't know whether this project has been abandoned, but a request would be to consolidate windows. As it is we have so many windows that could be consolidated. Socials/Community could be put in as tabs in the inventory or persona, etc, etc. Also make it so the map window isn't squared, but more of a sphere. You would have to implement the ability to have spherical windows to make that work, but then there could be a whole array of other mods that come out of it.

Just my 2cp.
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Unread 07-08-2009, 05:17 PM
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What the dev team is looking for is ideas on possibly combining windows, making some windows better, and the window graphic design. They aren't really looking for default window placement using the current default interface.

One idea that came from the UI community they are adding soon is the side by side quest window. These are the types of ideas they want and are looking for. How to make the UI smarter. The current default quest window was ok when most monitors were 4:3 aspect but now with almost every one having 16:9 the side by side quest window works much better.

How about some ideas for the persona window and zone lockout/reuse windows? How long does it take you to explain to some one new at raiding how to find and use the lockout/reuse window? I'm sure some of you have some ideas to either move info out from the window into the hud or better orginize that window. Or some ideas to make the raid window and raid leader options better and more intuitive?

Heck with the zone lockout/reuse timer would be cool to have a little clock / key icon on the hud any time there is a lock out set and clicking it would bring up a window that just lists the current instances you are locked out of or timers you need to reset.

Last edited by Dolby : 07-08-2009 at 05:19 PM.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 04:24 AM
gm9 gm9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
But part of me would really like to see a more integrated UI that isn't based as much on floating windows like the current Default. Something that has a more "HUD" feel to it.
Sounds like a job for Landiin to me.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 05:00 AM
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1. A community constructed alternate default UI would be awesome.

2. We need to think even further back to the basics here first. I really believe there needs to be a way for users to select their UI from within the game, and have the setting saved. I know that this is the PC age, but I think it would help out a lot of players if they didn't have to setup a eq2.ini file and then set a variable inside it.

3. I know this post is sorta off topic from the original post, but to go along with my #2. I would really like to see the UI INI layout files be in a readable format, editable by a text file, rather than in a compressed/strange format that we can at best, backup the files because we know they're working from with in-game.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 05:17 AM
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I made a new thread out of this discussion. I'm sure you'll forgive my editing of posts where necessary to achieve that.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 12:14 PM
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The hotbar idea is interesting for all the extras we like to have quick access to. But if you are thinking of redesigning hotbars a new issue has come up with TSO. I swap mostly between a swash and brig and play 95% from the keyboard. The problem is there are only 3 keyboard driven hot bars and all the of mine are used for combat, no fluff in them. TSO has added 4 new combat arts i have no place to put except in clicky bars and swapping the primary hotbar in fights is a pain. Setting up 2 spell macros doesnt work well since you can't see the status of one of the spells. A 4th keyboard hotbar using Shift-1, etc maybe would help.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 01:27 PM
Landiin Landiin is offline
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Setting up 2 spell macros doesnt work well since you can't see the status of one of the spells. A 4th keyboard hotbar using Shift-1, etc maybe would help.
You set the spell with the longest recast timer to the primary. When you see the icon "ungrey" you know u can chain the two ca/spells. Thats they way I do my chains any ways.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 01:33 PM
N1Md4 N1Md4 is offline
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i would prefer to add this community UI as an advanced UI and keep the default UI as the basic / beginner UI like in many Tools (software) there are often basic settings and advanced settings. The player can decide wich fits his need best. Or if possible doit like the Con-System, switchable?! GroupWindow with C2C and without. On a Raid i prefer C2C, on a casual Group i don't really need C2C or at soloing.

At the beginning of the Game there are several hints displayed, maybe display a hint to switch UI if the player reaches a level? (30/40?)



I also vote for the fourth "keyboard-hotbar"!

kind regards,

Nimda
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Unread 12-19-2008, 01:34 PM
SOE-Rothgar SOE-Rothgar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machbane View Post
The hotbar idea is interesting for all the extras we like to have quick access to. But if you are thinking of redesigning hotbars a new issue has come up with TSO. I swap mostly between a swash and brig and play 95% from the keyboard. The problem is there are only 3 keyboard driven hot bars and all the of mine are used for combat, no fluff in them. TSO has added 4 new combat arts i have no place to put except in clicky bars and swapping the primary hotbar in fights is a pain. Setting up 2 spell macros doesnt work well since you can't see the status of one of the spells. A 4th keyboard hotbar using Shift-1, etc maybe would help.
We've been kicking around the idea of creating hotkeys for the 4th hotbar. They would be Ctl-Alt-#. Probably a pain for abilities you use all the time, but for lesser-used things, it would be easier than reaching for the mouse.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 01:32 PM
SOE-Rothgar SOE-Rothgar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumstix42 View Post
1. A community constructed alternate default UI would be awesome.

2. We need to think even further back to the basics here first. I really believe there needs to be a way for users to select their UI from within the game, and have the setting saved. I know that this is the PC age, but I think it would help out a lot of players if they didn't have to setup a eq2.ini file and then set a variable inside it.

3. I know this post is sorta off topic from the original post, but to go along with my #2. I would really like to see the UI INI layout files be in a readable format, editable by a text file, rather than in a compressed/strange format that we can at best, backup the files because we know they're working from with in-game.
2. I agree, this should be easy enough.


3. I've wanted to do this for awhile myself. In fact I sort of already started on it about 6 months ago writing a replacement for our streaming class to stream to XML instead of the binary format it uses now. The problem is that every single window in the game needs to change so that it not only outputs the value, but the name of the value. Currently we rely on the position of the data in the file to know what it is. To move to an XML format, we'll need to send more information about the data. We also need to remain backwards compatible with the older format since we never know when a player might log in from an old installation. So behind the scenes, our deserialize code will look kinda bad supporting both. However, I still think its something worth doing. It would be a tremendous help when it comes to troubleshooting issues related to ini settings.

gm9, thanks for making the new thread!
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Unread 12-19-2008, 02:45 PM
Landiin Landiin is offline
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3. I've wanted to do this for awhile myself. In fact I sort of already started on it about 6 months ago writing a replacement for our streaming class to stream to XML instead of the binary format it uses now. The problem is that every single window in the game needs to change so that it not only outputs the value, but the name of the value. Currently we rely on the position of the data in the file to know what it is. To move to an XML format, we'll need to send more information about the data. We also need to remain backwards compatible with the older format since we never know when a player might log in from an old installation. So behind the scenes, our deserialize code will look kinda bad supporting both. However, I still think its something worth doing. It would be a tremendous help when it comes to troubleshooting issues related to ini settings.!
Funny just cracked open UISettingSpy source today to fix the addition of the voice channels. How soon will this be implemented? If soon I'll just trash the stream code and start tooling it for xml.
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Unread 12-19-2008, 02:54 PM
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We also need to remain backwards compatible with the older format since we never know when a player might log in from an old installation.
ONly for bonus points, I'd happily have my entire UI reset if the uisettings.ini files were easily editable in return (and I could finally keep the ProfitUI default settings easily updated).
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Unread 12-19-2008, 02:57 PM
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ONly for bonus points, I'd happily have my entire UI reset if the uisettings.ini files were easily editable in return (and I could finally keep the ProfitUI default settings easily updated).
Yeah, me too, but I don't think we're in the majority. Some people just don't care how we store the INI files and would probably be upset if all their window settings were lost.

Maintaining backward compatibility isn't really a problem, its just an inconvenience in the code.

Landiin, I don't have any time frame for getting this done. This is not something that is actually on my schedule so it would most likely be something I have to do in my spare time.
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