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  #1  
Unread 11-17-2006, 11:04 AM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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Default EQ2 UI for Dummies

Like the title say. I been trying to learn how to build a UI since real early 2005. No matter how much I read how to do it. It's just not sticking with me, terrible memory here.

I was wondering if any of the UI developers here, had ever thought of making a guide like EQ2 UI for dummies. Not only building the UI and how to locate things in the different XML's, but how to know set the size of the windows say to 1024x768 resolution, even though I use a smaller resolution in game compare to my desktop.

Also talk about making the graphics, I don't use photoshop, but i do have The Gimp installed.

I like to start off on window size and resize the default say to 50% to 75% reduction for a start. Then once i learned that and understand it, then to expand out from that.

I know i probably can more than likely do a search, but using the appropiate keywords to find what i need, I have trouble with that, get everything else but not what i'm looking for.

Any help would be greatly appreciated because this is something I been wanting to learn how to do ever since january 2005.

If this is posted in the wrong forum, I'm sorry for that in adavance.
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  #2  
Unread 11-17-2006, 11:25 AM
Deacon Deacon is offline
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While I think this could be a good idea, maybe a collection of how to threads or a collection of blog entries on the subject, I don't see it as the quickest way for YOU to learn. What I have found about learning to create a UI ( and other computer/programming endeavors ) is first try to do something. It's a good idea to keep it small at first. Learning how to do that one thing will get you knowledge that is easier to remember because you didn't just read it, but you did it ( and maybe said some choice words out loud related to it ). That will help your retention and also probably fuel your thirst for more knowledge. That has been my experience anyway.

Once again, I think something along these lines would be a good idea. Good idea for some blog entries I think. Maybe a wiki about the different parts of the game UI? Good thoughts for people with more time to devote to it than I.
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  #3  
Unread 11-17-2006, 12:02 PM
FloridaFringe FloridaFringe is offline
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Deacon,

What type of mod would be a good start for someone with no knowledge of this sort of thing? In other words, if you were teaching a mod class and were to give out your first homework assignment what would it be?

I'm looking to add Click-to-Cure to the default player window without making any other changes. Is that too much or about just right for a newbie?

Also, would the UIBuilder be the best tool for newbie to start out with or is there something better?

Thanks for any advise that you can offer.
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  #4  
Unread 11-17-2006, 02:24 PM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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UIBuilder is the ONLY GUI tool for making EQ2 UIs that I know of.

It has it's problems, but its what SOE uses to make the default UI. Rumor is that an updated version will be coming down soon (and I can't wait for it heh).


As for the first assignment... the easiest thing would be to have someone add a new bit of data to say the persona window.

I say that because thats the first thing I did heh. It's simple, and gives you a look into how the UI works without going to deep too fast.
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Unread 11-17-2006, 05:06 PM
Landiin Landiin is offline
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I would stay way from any thing that had templates.

A good window to start out with would be the eq2ui_mainhud_windowsettings.xml. It has just about all the UI pieces in it, So you would be able to stay with that window for quite some time. If you are looking for basic go with the death window.( but sux to test that one lol)
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  #6  
Unread 11-17-2006, 06:11 PM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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k i'll check that out landiin.

Now I figure out how to do the math on the resizing, now i just got to figure out how to pick the correct thing to place the new size in. in the UI Builder.

But I will check out the eq2ui_mainhud_windowsettings.xml landiin.

What file would the hotbars be in, because i do want to reduce those down.
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  #7  
Unread 11-17-2006, 06:24 PM
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Default Break it till it works!

I can't agree with deacon more! Just keep breaking things till they work.
Change small things at first, change a 5 to a 20, guess on what you think it will do, and test it. Rinse & Repeat.

I can't say enough about teaching oneself. Although, I think it would be very helpful for someone to make a blog with a series of entries as Deacon mentioned, or something similiar it still won't get you from point A to B.

For example, if there is something that you want to do with a UI, and you find an article or post on 'How To' do it, there is probably already a mod that you can download for it. So why do it over?

The fun part is doing stuff that no one has done before!
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  #8  
Unread 11-17-2006, 08:08 PM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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I look at the individual pieces, and seen very few pieces that is updated for GU29 & EoF.

With what few pieces I added it's looking nicely slowly, but i just can't figure out how to open the info center, since it looks like a very informative piece. I'll post about that in the proper forum.

But still trying to figure out how to resize the hotbars, the UI's I look at especially the one that I always use since jan 05 I can't figure it out, the files i thought it would be like eq2ui_mainhud_hotkey.xml but the size is the same. What file would control the hotbars?
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  #9  
Unread 11-17-2006, 09:44 PM
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Maybe just right click on the hotbar and select the icon size
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  #10  
Unread 11-24-2006, 05:37 PM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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well what files do i need for that Laffs, because like the title said for this thread. the only thing i can do is download a interface piece and put it in place. as far as using the UI builder and editting the XML I'm a complete lost.

Trying to to attain the basic knowledge of how to build UI. A few authors i sent a pm to and ask how they did something in their UI, i understand how to do it, but i just can't do it, because of tyhe trouble i have with the UI builder and while looking at the XML in my crimson editor I'm lost. BTW I can build website in html which only took me like 2 1/2 years to learn how to do on my own. and I had read many XML tutorial the structure i understand but actually doing it thats where my mind draws a blank.

This is the same problem I'm having building a UI. I can read all there is to build, but when it comes to either build or edit something my mind comes to a blank.

Then as far as breaking things, I had messing around with the UI builder and not having a clue on what does what, and either have to shut my computer down or hit the reset button. then delete all of my files and try and start over, because i can't remeber what file it was controlled what and where at i had done the editting.
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  #11  
Unread 11-24-2006, 05:49 PM
FloridaFringe FloridaFringe is offline
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Resizing the hotbars is part of the default ui (therefore, apart of every hotbar mod as well). Just right click on the hotbar and select Set Icon Size. No modding necessary.

As far as I can tell you might be better off not modding as it doesn't seem like your thing. I would probably just stick to using custom mods for now.
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  #12  
Unread 11-24-2006, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFringe
Resizing the hotbars is part of the default ui (therefore, apart of every hotbar mod as well). Just right click on the hotbar and select Set Icon Size. No modding necessary.

As far as I can tell you might be better off not modding as it doesn't seem like your thing. I would probably just stick to using custom mods for now.
Well spoken.......

Somtimes its a case of each unto there own mate, whilst there is peeps here that can and do mod the UI, mostly I would hazzard a guess and say there jobs is mainly in IT or just have a lateral way of thinking (maybe), whilst they can do this maybe most cant do what you do in real life ... So back to my statement ... Each to there own...

If you cant get to grips with the UI builder in under 1 hour and do some basic stuff like change text color and move a few items about within a window and make it work in game then sorry its not going to happen.

As for me, Who am I? ... Basicly a adventure games programer that missed the big slot due to discovering women and drink, my loss ... What am I now? I am a plasterer , whats a plasterer.. the nice smooth stuff you have on 90% of walls in buildings is what I do...

And probably the only one in this part of the world that knows anything about even turning a computer on nevermind codeing somthing lol

Sorry for rambling on was going to delete this but thought no, I typed it in so let it be read lol
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  #13  
Unread 11-24-2006, 10:36 PM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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i understand laff, i can change the font the color, but like to know how to do the size things, and be able to reconize what window is what xml file, and that part i can figure out already except for say like the slayer status window, i have no clue what xml file that would control that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaFringe
Resizing the hotbars is part of the default ui (therefore, apart of every hotbar mod as well). Just right click on the hotbar and select Set Icon Size. No modding necessary.

As far as I can tell you might be better off not modding as it doesn't seem like your thing. I would probably just stick to using custom mods for now.
I been using a custom UI since december 2004, been using primary fetish classic in the beginning and now nightfall.

I want to stretch my mind out more since i finally got my main to level 70 guardian, and that now I don't have to put the time into the game like i was.
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  #14  
Unread 11-25-2006, 09:07 AM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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Sinister,

There's no file that says "This window is this xml file in game"

It's all hard coded into the game. IE, the game knows that the persona window is eq2ui_mainhud_persona.xml

Most files you'll see are those the game knows about and are hardcoded into it, but you can make any window you want and show it in-game with the /show_window command and such. Look at the Infocenter -- it's a completely new window.

The category (IE eq2_mainhud.xml) files tell the game which files to load and ever consider. eq2ui.xml is the "big daddy" file that the game _always_ starts with and uses to find and load every other file.

But window-file associations are all done within the context of the game.
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  #15  
Unread 11-27-2006, 05:44 PM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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i think i might if had worded that reply wrong.

Lord I do understand what your talking about.

I am determined to understand everything about the UI build process.

ok let me ask this then.

should i be doing the editting with the eq2ui.xml in the builder, instead of opening up the individual xml files. since the individual files not showing me the images compare to the eq2ui.xml.

then with the eq2ui.xml opened up in the ui builder, with some images i can't see them because of other images covering them up. so if i move a image out of the way to adjust another one, do i need to put that image back in the same place, or does it matter where the images are put.

As i look in the UI builder in the menu what does each item does like thedifferent objects, etc, etc

and when there's a GU comes out, i notice in the xml page difference there are numbers that is different from the new defaulk. do i need to change those numbers or just keep the numbers i had before the new GU?

(comes up for a breathe of air)

Even though i understand thinigs on how to do this and that while trying to build a UI, I come to a lost when i go and actually do it. (gonna have to attachj a raid system to brain with 900TB storage)
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  #16  
Unread 11-27-2006, 06:38 PM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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OK, I get what you mean now.

Whenever doing anything in UIBuilder, you need to open eq2ui.xml and then find the window you want there.

I think you're talking about dragging windows around in UIBuilder, right? You can drag them away to see the window you want (some windows are hidden by default, you have to toggle "visible=true" from "visible=false" to see them.

Also, don't save your workspace. That does icky things (at least it always has for me). I also recommend when you save, you do Save As and save it into a new folder so it doesn't overwrite all your old files, then just copy the files you've modded into your normal UI folder to test them in game.
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  #17  
Unread 11-28-2006, 02:13 AM
SiNiStEr_NaTiOn SiNiStEr_NaTiOn is offline
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k thanxs. I know ther was something else but hey it's 2:10am here, just got finish playing EQ2, and to tired to think waht it was at this moment. lol

I do the save as thing, I notice little weird thing when it tries to save.

I'm sure it will come to me evetually as my brain starts to function again (hopefully).
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  #18  
Unread 12-06-2006, 12:00 AM
Claritin Claritin is offline
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UI_Builder is not the only tool for editing EQ2 UI.

Notepad is an excellent tool for the job... IMHO it's more stable and results in cleaner code and better positioning most the time.

Also... to me... it's eaiser to understand also... I look at a line... it says it has MitigationPercent and it's location is 270,42 and it's size is 70,18 and I know that at location 270,42 until 340, 60 there is a rectangle with a % value of my mitigation there.

I can then change the location of this item to someplace more suitable.... like up 20 pixels. (250,42) and change the size of the field to something more relaistic (50,18) and use the room below or to the right of it to add additional data.

What data would I add?

Well... I'd look at another piece of my UI default or someone else's Custom UI parts for a piece of data I find important that I want elsewhere.... I would look for a string like PowerPool or something of that nature... and I could copy the line out of that note pad window into the other one I have my current project in... then start to change the location & size to land in the empty spot I mad... and font type would be changed to match the other UI info on that page.

Anyway... this is more for Sinister than for these other guys... because I think notepad is just an eaiser way to see data and grasp what it is going to accomplish without the 50 "fluff details" like "Visible yes/no" type junk all over the place.

In notepad what I love the most is when I want 4 lines of stat titles all in a row about 10 pixels in from the left... I don't drag and drop and end up with one at 9 pixels and two at 11 pixels and the last at 10... I simply type 10,5 10,15 10,25 and 10,35 for locations... everything is lined up and evenly spaced.... if it isn't I change margin= or alignment= sections on that XML line and fix or delete... more often than not I delete.... stupid sloppy UI tool sneaks that junk in. ;-p
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  #19  
Unread 12-06-2006, 09:03 AM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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Well, I use the location bits in UIBuilder too... I can't just drag things around. I just like it because it gives you an instant graphical representation... did that 5px fix the thing from being cut off, or do you need to move it a tad more? Very useful there.
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  #20  
Unread 12-06-2006, 01:39 PM
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Ok some working pratices that may help others.

Working with UIBuilder
1) ALWAYS keep separate development, test and production directories. The Dev directory is for making code changes. The test directory is for in-game testing of unpublished code. The production directory holds your most recently published files.

2) Avoid opening the test directory in UIBuilder, and NEVER save if you do. Saving from UIBuilder will copy every file from the default directory to the opened directory, weather changes were made or not. UIBuilder also likes to correct malformed XML that, although technically improper, works fine and was done intentionally. For example, it likes to promote code from included files with multiple root nodes to the parent file.

3) Use UIBuilder to modify files in the dev directory. Save from UIBuilder then from Windows, manually copy any files you meant to change over to your test directory. Anything else changed by UIBuilder should be left in the dev directory.

4) Launch EQ2 with the test directory as your UI. If more tweaks are needed, repeate step 3.

5) Once all your testing is done and your tweaked file(s) work as intended, replace your dev directory with a copy of your test directory. This ensures the next time you go to tweak a different file, you're working with tested code and not some later version modified by UIBuilder.

6) When its ready to be published, make sure any old production directories have been archived. Copy any files required by the mod from your test directory to an empty production directory. Check it in-game to ensure you didn't miss a file. ZIP the varified production directory and upload it to this site.

Working with text editors
Some changes are more eisily done with a text editor, but most editors will corrupt the file encoding used by UIBuilder, converting it to some other encoding when the file is opened. Saving the file with the converted encoding then confuses UIBuilder into doing some rather nasty character conversions that get progressively worse each time the file is edited with UIBuilder. Notepad is known to reliably preserve the file encoding but is a poor editor. To work around these problems and still take advantage of a feature ritch text editor, follow these guidelines.

1) Open the dev file to be edited in Notepad. Select all, and copy.

2) Open your robust text editor and paste the code into a new doc. Make any desired edits. Although opening the xml directly into the robust editor isn't a problem, accidental saves could be. Its best not to open eq2 xmls in any text editor except Notepad.

3) Once your edits are done, select everything after the first "<Page " tag, including the very last bit of code. Copy and switch back to Notepad.

4) With the original file open in Notepad, select everything after the opening "<Page " and paste the code from your robust editor. DON'T paste over the code bits before the opening tag, that's the file encoding string and it contains special characters that most editors display as boxes but may not display at all. Starting your replacements after the opening "<Page " characters ensures you aren't replacing anything invisible.

Note: If you do accidentally hose the file encoding, you can duplicate any default eq2 xml file in Windows, rename it, and paste in new code as described above to restore a working version.

5) Save the file, then copy it from your dev directory to your test directory.

Note: If you're the only one working with the code and are only using a text editor to make changes, you can tweak directly to the test directory but be sure to copy the changes back to your dev directory befor working with another file.

UIBuilder dos and don'ts
UIBuilder does have a "Run" mode for testing scripts. Using this feature can save you tons of time logging in and out of game, but there are some hazards to be aware of.

1) ALWAYS save any changes BEFORE using the "Run" mode. Stopping run mode does not revert the windows to their state prior to hitting "Run", so any changes made to the windows by the executed script will still be there after run.

2) NEVER save after using "Run" mode. Doing so will often result in windows saved in a state altered by scripts that might prevent them from working as intended.

3) AVOID togelling atributes that might trigger a script event. Even when not in "Run" mode, toggeling visibility will execute the OnShow/OnHide script for that object. Likewise for Activated, Enabled, Set, etc. If you need to work on a hidden window that does have an OnShow script, use Notepad to set it to Visible="true" then reload your set. After making your changes and saving, be sure to use Notepad to restore the original visibility.

4) After using "Run" mode and/or fideling with event triggers, make sure Run has been stopped then reload your file set without saving.

5) If a window is obscured by other windows, its generally better to move it to the top of the stack order rather than hiding everything above it. This will only change the parent file (MinHud for example) which you can restore from the test directory after your changes are saved. There are buttons above the object tree for changing the stack order, one of which moves the selected object to the top, another moves to bottom.

Here are a few old reference links concerning now common eq2 scripting methods and working with UIBuilder...

Opening custom windows and slash commands
Duplicating Inventory which resulted in the many ammo and bag strip mods. Also contributed to many of the Start button mods.
Slash command lsit which resulted in the first Performance setter by Kosmos
Dependancies
Memory Management
UIBuilder alignment
Dummy objects for sizing
Traversing Branches enableds stuff like Examine names pipped to Market, Prices piped to Market, etc.
Conditionals
Dropdowns and Datasources
String concatination

I've always wanted to write a guide to EQ2 modding, but just don't have the time
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  #21  
Unread 12-06-2006, 02:27 PM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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I use EditPlus... I've never found it to mess up the encoding at the beginning when working directly with EQ2 XML files. It saves me a lot of time by not having to do anything like that =)
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  #22  
Unread 12-06-2006, 03:32 PM
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I see there's a reg fee for EditPlus... Is this NagWare, GimpWare, or Disabled after the 30 day eval?

Does it support regular expresion replacements across all files in a directory?

Could you please attach an eq2ui file saved from EditPlus? I'd like to test it before I buy this editor. Please do the following...

- Open the default version of eq2ui_mainhud_society.xml in EditPlus.
- Type a space at the end, delete it, then save the file someplace.
- Now reply to this thread and attach the saved file.

I'll run some tests to ensure it hasn't changed the encoding

If EditPlus doesn't support RegEx, I'd really like to find an editor that does and won't bungle the eq2 encoding.
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  #23  
Unread 12-06-2006, 04:09 PM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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I've been using it a long time, I can't remember... after 30 days it either stops working, or just has a nag screen. I forget, I use so much software details blend together.

It does support RegEx. I know you can find things over a directory, think you can do F&Replace over a directory too.

Oh, and the file attached. When saving, it allows you to specify the encoding... if the files are UTF-8 like they say in the middle, thats what it's saving them as.

But just as anecdotal evidence, I've never noticed it mess anything up, and thats with working with xml and php files, sometimes at the same time, from various sources.
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  #24  
Unread 12-06-2006, 06:47 PM
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Ok tested it and EditPlus is changing the encoding. An example of this can be seen by opening the file you provided in UIBuilder and examining the Tooltip field for the MOTD. The tooltip includes an apostrophy which once the encoding is changed to standard UTF-8, does not get properly converted. More alarming is that this results in a progressive degeneration problem that converts "&" to &amp; every time the file is saved from UIBuilder. After a few saves, you end up with something like

&amp;amp;amp;amp;apos;s

Instead of just &apos;s

The original line of code (line breaks added for easier reading)
Code:
<Text Font="/Fonts.FontZapf18" LocalText="[DEVL] Level X" 
LocalTooltip="Guild&apos;s current level" Location="287,76" 
Margin="0,0,5,0" Name="SocietyLevelText" PackLocation="right,top" PackLocationProp="-481/0001,0076/0001" ScrollExtent="109,36" 
Size="109,20" TextAlignment="Right" TextAlignmentVertical="Center" 
TextColor="#EBDEAA" Tooltip="Guild&apos;s current level">[DEVL] Level X</Text>
The same line of code after saving from EditPlus, then saving from UIBuilder
Code:
<Text Font="/Fonts.FontZapf18" LocalText="[DEVL] Level X" 
LocalTooltip="Guild&amp;apos;s current level" Location="287,76" 
Margin="0,0,5,0" Name="SocietyLevelText" PackLocation="right,top" 
PackLocationProp="-481/0001,0076/0001" ScrollExtent="109,36" 
Size="109,20" TextAlignment="Right" TextAlignmentVertical="Center" 
TextColor="#EBDEAA" Tooltip="Guild&amp;apos;s current level">[DEVL] Level X</Text>
Compare the LocalTooltip values.

The problem here isn't with the UTF-8 callout, its with the special double-bite caracter not even visible in many text editors. In Notepad it appears as a square. In other editors it's often translated into a line break. It falls after the encoding tag and before the first XML tag
Code:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>[]<Page
Most editors convert that illedgable character when the file is opened. When you save, its gone and UIBuilder will from that point on, fail to understand entities already in the file, converting the & on every save. Progressively corupting your files.
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Unread 12-06-2006, 07:37 PM
lordebon lordebon is offline
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Ah, indeed. It seems EditPlus just ignores the double-byte character (when you open it, it doesn't even display it as a box or anything).

What purpose does it server for UIBuilder (the double-byte character)?
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